Claire wouldn't mind. She's learned plenty of details about Jon's life that perhaps shouldn't be shared, but at this point, they're family. It's what has her giving his next question some more consideration than what might actually be necessary. Maybe it's good for him to know her family wasn't picturesque.
"He married the woman he loves, and she loves him, so I think so. She's actually my husband's step-daughter," she admits with a little huff of a laugh. Oh, she can see the humor in it now, but Claire was hardly the happiest woman to find out Jamie not only remarried, but now was step-father to two girls.
It wasn't so much the marrying, but who he married. Laoghaire nearly had her burned at the stake for being a witch. To think of that still makes Claire's blood boil, but Marsali was (thankfully) very different from her mother.
Jon's comment makes her smile, thoughts of Laoghaire brushed away as she looks over at him.
"I always wanted children. I thought for a very long time that I was unable." The problem wasn't with her, as she found out--but while Faith showed her she could conceive, her pregnancies were never easy. Even Brianna's would could have taken her life had she stayed in the 18th century. "We would joke about having a dozen of them. I think I would have liked that, if it were possible. Things didn't come to pass the way we hoped, but I've managed all right with what I've found."
The family tree was a little difficult to follow. How many times had Claire's husband remarried? He seemed young when Jon saw him, but he married Claire and had children with her, but before that was married and was a stepfather? He shook his head, trying to make sense of it all.
"He was married before you?" He can see tension in Claire's eyes, but can't say for certain what was causing it. He knew from experience that not many women were fond of raising children that were not their own, but Claire wasn't like the rest of the women he had known. He can only assume there are painful memories attached.
He smiled softly at the compliment, nodding in agreement with her. "When I joined the Night's Watch, I had to take an oath to never marry, hold land or have children. It wasn't something I thought much of when I was younger." It still hadn't occurred to him until he was beyond the Wall and Jorah mentioned the idea. "I never thought about the future very much."
It gets even worse. Claire hesitates, lips pressing together for a moment. She hasn't told many people this, but Jon's earned it, of all people.
"Well. I was actually married before I married Jamie. He wasn't." A virgin on their wedding night, he really had no idea what a marriage was. Which meant a rocky start, but in the end, Claire's glad he was clueless. It meant he did what felt right and not what was expected. "I thought I'd never see my first husband again, and there were circumstances that required I marry into Jamie's family, so..."
That's not the whole truth. She could have returned to Frank, her husband, but she choose Jamie. A thing she's never regretted, though she does regret the pain she caused Frank, then, and for the rest of his life. She's not always been a kind woman. Claire takes a breath and glances up at the sky.
"But war came, and Jamie had to send me away, because--that's when we found out I was pregnant with Brianna. I ended up with my first husband again, and... well. I thought Jamie was dead, and he thought I must be, too." Or just gone, out of reach. "For twenty years, we had no idea it was possible to find one another again, so he remarried, and I raised his daughter with Frank. We carried on."
Always tragic, she felt, that Jamie never got to see either of his daughters with her in the flesh. A thing that could change here but she doesn't dare hope.
"After my first husband died, I found out Jamie was still alive, and so I found him." And all the shocks that come along with that. "My being alive made his marriage invalid, but he still looked after them. He's a good man like that."
And, she probably shouldn't say this, but she's already told Jon enough that should have probably be kept to herself. What's one more?
"He had a bastard, too. The boy didn't know Jamie was his father, but Jamie loved him very much, and inquired after him even after years apart. I'm sure he's up in stasis, somewhere." Claire hasn't looked. Maybe she will one day. Just not yet.
She gives Jon a warm smile. "I don't think boys often grow up dreaming about being husbands and fathers. I assume it's more about slaying monsters and saving damsels in distress, no?" That must be universal.
It's clear from the look on his face that he can't exactly follow all of this. There was a mess of marriages, most of them valid or invalid, depending on the rules of his world. Rules that he wasn't sure how to clarify or address. But there was something that stuck out in his mind, "If your husband still lived, wouldn't that make your marriage to Jaime invalid?"
Not that it really married. He wasn't a man to judge, even if it confused him or left him bewildered. The rules were different in other worlds and it seemed he would have to learn to adjust to them and anticipate that he might not always follow.
The mention of a bastard raises a sad look in Jon's eyes, sympathetic to the plight the boy must have gone through. Even if he grew up in a loving family, it wasn't a state that was easy to grow up under. There was a stigma attached and it would follow them until they died.
"It wasn't the boy from the brothel?" The words were out of them before he could stop himself. He smiled, amused. "I suppose so. I thought I was joining an honorable brotherhood full of heroes, but it hasn't been that way for years." Some were heroes, but not all.
The look, at least, makes Claire bite back a laugh. Oh, now she can laugh herself about the strangeness of it all, but before? Not so much. Though she does sober up when she replies to his question.
"When I was with each of then, it was believed the other was dead. So... I suppose that got overlooked, in a way. With a husband dead, there's no official need to dissolve a marriage." Or, you know, if they're hundreds of years apart.
Claire actually doesn't know if Willie is aware he's adopted--his mother died giving birth to him, and so his sister took the boy in, as Jamie told her. And then John Grey married her, becoming his father. It'd be easy enough to pass the boy off as their own and keep him safe in the process.
"Fergus? Oh, no. He's not ours by blood. My husband only ever frequented brothels for business purposes." Which sounds like a sorry excuse a husband would make, she knows, but she knows Jamie was never a patron. Not ever. "I do think of my husband's son now and then. Maybe more so these days," she says with a knowing smile towards Jon. Wonder why? "I don't know how I'd receive him were he to wake up and come down here."
"But they weren't dead?" He's lost and it shows. He didn't know exactly what questions would make things more clear. Instead, he will have to accept her explanation. It was obvious at least which man she preferred.
"Business purposes?" That's said with a hint of amusement. He knew the business men had in brothels. Theon had gone to them regularly, sometimes bragging about the women he had. Robb hadn't really bothered and Jon had tried once, only to flee before anything happened.
"Do you know the boy's mother?" Part of him had wondered if Catelyn had ever heard who his mother was. It seemed unlikely, given how little Ned spoke of her, if ever at all. It was a secret, even from those he loved. "I'm sorry for him. Being raised as a bastard is painful for a child." The attention and scorn was too much for someone young, introducing them to hostility before they came to know tenderness.
His questions seem to confuse her and this is her twisted marriage story. At least she can laugh, awkwardly. "Not when I thought they were. Though Frank is dead now--or... was. He's in stasis. I found him there not too long ago." So, technically, both her husbands are still alive. Good lord.
There's no need for Claire to defend Jamie in this. She never liked his business in brothels, but Prince Charles was a fan of conducting his discussions there. Though, considering how her husband later came to live in a brothel, she's not so sure some of Charles didn't rub off on him.
"No, I never met Willie's mother. She died giving birth to him, but I did meet his adoptive father." Lord John Grey. A curious man, quite fond of Jamie, and while that gave her pause, she knows he's a good man. Jamie wouldn't trust Willie to anyone less.
Knowing Jon is speaking from personal experience, she moves to take his arm and give him a little bump with her shoulder. She knows.
"If I ever do get the chance to meet him, I will most certainly keep you in mind. I would be glad for Jamie to have a son that's anything like you. If my husband came home with a Jon Snow, I'd be a lucky woman."
There was a hint of a smile on his lips, touched by the gesture and kindness offered. She was a different sort of woman from Lady Stark, and while he didn't doubt that she was frustrated or insulted by Willie's presence, he doubt that she went out of her way to insult him or make him feel unwelcome in his father's home.
But it wasn't something he knew how to discuss or express his feelings on. While he had frustrations about his childhood, they remained largely silent and buried under a stoic nature and the burden of duty that was far more pressing on his shoulders.
"We should get back," he said softly, ready to leave the ghosts behind. "Have you met any of the new arrivals?"
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
"He married the woman he loves, and she loves him, so I think so. She's actually my husband's step-daughter," she admits with a little huff of a laugh. Oh, she can see the humor in it now, but Claire was hardly the happiest woman to find out Jamie not only remarried, but now was step-father to two girls.
It wasn't so much the marrying, but who he married. Laoghaire nearly had her burned at the stake for being a witch. To think of that still makes Claire's blood boil, but Marsali was (thankfully) very different from her mother.
Jon's comment makes her smile, thoughts of Laoghaire brushed away as she looks over at him.
"I always wanted children. I thought for a very long time that I was unable." The problem wasn't with her, as she found out--but while Faith showed her she could conceive, her pregnancies were never easy. Even Brianna's would could have taken her life had she stayed in the 18th century. "We would joke about having a dozen of them. I think I would have liked that, if it were possible. Things didn't come to pass the way we hoped, but I've managed all right with what I've found."
Sansa and Jon being two of them.
no subject
"He was married before you?" He can see tension in Claire's eyes, but can't say for certain what was causing it. He knew from experience that not many women were fond of raising children that were not their own, but Claire wasn't like the rest of the women he had known. He can only assume there are painful memories attached.
He smiled softly at the compliment, nodding in agreement with her. "When I joined the Night's Watch, I had to take an oath to never marry, hold land or have children. It wasn't something I thought much of when I was younger." It still hadn't occurred to him until he was beyond the Wall and Jorah mentioned the idea. "I never thought about the future very much."
no subject
"Well. I was actually married before I married Jamie. He wasn't." A virgin on their wedding night, he really had no idea what a marriage was. Which meant a rocky start, but in the end, Claire's glad he was clueless. It meant he did what felt right and not what was expected. "I thought I'd never see my first husband again, and there were circumstances that required I marry into Jamie's family, so..."
That's not the whole truth. She could have returned to Frank, her husband, but she choose Jamie. A thing she's never regretted, though she does regret the pain she caused Frank, then, and for the rest of his life. She's not always been a kind woman. Claire takes a breath and glances up at the sky.
"But war came, and Jamie had to send me away, because--that's when we found out I was pregnant with Brianna. I ended up with my first husband again, and... well. I thought Jamie was dead, and he thought I must be, too." Or just gone, out of reach. "For twenty years, we had no idea it was possible to find one another again, so he remarried, and I raised his daughter with Frank. We carried on."
Always tragic, she felt, that Jamie never got to see either of his daughters with her in the flesh. A thing that could change here but she doesn't dare hope.
"After my first husband died, I found out Jamie was still alive, and so I found him." And all the shocks that come along with that. "My being alive made his marriage invalid, but he still looked after them. He's a good man like that."
And, she probably shouldn't say this, but she's already told Jon enough that should have probably be kept to herself. What's one more?
"He had a bastard, too. The boy didn't know Jamie was his father, but Jamie loved him very much, and inquired after him even after years apart. I'm sure he's up in stasis, somewhere." Claire hasn't looked. Maybe she will one day. Just not yet.
She gives Jon a warm smile. "I don't think boys often grow up dreaming about being husbands and fathers. I assume it's more about slaying monsters and saving damsels in distress, no?" That must be universal.
no subject
Not that it really married. He wasn't a man to judge, even if it confused him or left him bewildered. The rules were different in other worlds and it seemed he would have to learn to adjust to them and anticipate that he might not always follow.
The mention of a bastard raises a sad look in Jon's eyes, sympathetic to the plight the boy must have gone through. Even if he grew up in a loving family, it wasn't a state that was easy to grow up under. There was a stigma attached and it would follow them until they died.
"It wasn't the boy from the brothel?" The words were out of them before he could stop himself. He smiled, amused. "I suppose so. I thought I was joining an honorable brotherhood full of heroes, but it hasn't been that way for years." Some were heroes, but not all.
no subject
"When I was with each of then, it was believed the other was dead. So... I suppose that got overlooked, in a way. With a husband dead, there's no official need to dissolve a marriage." Or, you know, if they're hundreds of years apart.
Claire actually doesn't know if Willie is aware he's adopted--his mother died giving birth to him, and so his sister took the boy in, as Jamie told her. And then John Grey married her, becoming his father. It'd be easy enough to pass the boy off as their own and keep him safe in the process.
"Fergus? Oh, no. He's not ours by blood. My husband only ever frequented brothels for business purposes." Which sounds like a sorry excuse a husband would make, she knows, but she knows Jamie was never a patron. Not ever. "I do think of my husband's son now and then. Maybe more so these days," she says with a knowing smile towards Jon. Wonder why? "I don't know how I'd receive him were he to wake up and come down here."
Or how to explain herself.
no subject
"Business purposes?" That's said with a hint of amusement. He knew the business men had in brothels. Theon had gone to them regularly, sometimes bragging about the women he had. Robb hadn't really bothered and Jon had tried once, only to flee before anything happened.
"Do you know the boy's mother?" Part of him had wondered if Catelyn had ever heard who his mother was. It seemed unlikely, given how little Ned spoke of her, if ever at all. It was a secret, even from those he loved. "I'm sorry for him. Being raised as a bastard is painful for a child." The attention and scorn was too much for someone young, introducing them to hostility before they came to know tenderness.
no subject
There's no need for Claire to defend Jamie in this. She never liked his business in brothels, but Prince Charles was a fan of conducting his discussions there. Though, considering how her husband later came to live in a brothel, she's not so sure some of Charles didn't rub off on him.
"No, I never met Willie's mother. She died giving birth to him, but I did meet his adoptive father." Lord John Grey. A curious man, quite fond of Jamie, and while that gave her pause, she knows he's a good man. Jamie wouldn't trust Willie to anyone less.
Knowing Jon is speaking from personal experience, she moves to take his arm and give him a little bump with her shoulder. She knows.
"If I ever do get the chance to meet him, I will most certainly keep you in mind. I would be glad for Jamie to have a son that's anything like you. If my husband came home with a Jon Snow, I'd be a lucky woman."
no subject
But it wasn't something he knew how to discuss or express his feelings on. While he had frustrations about his childhood, they remained largely silent and buried under a stoic nature and the burden of duty that was far more pressing on his shoulders.
"We should get back," he said softly, ready to leave the ghosts behind. "Have you met any of the new arrivals?"